Business PC Server

[nsmoller]

I own a pharmacy. Our dispensing software is linux based and uses diskless workstations to operate. I have the specifications for hardware thats required. I'm looking for suggestions on actual mobo, CPU, ram configs that would work the best. Here's the information from the company on requirements for the server:

_ OS Release: Red Hat 8.0 Linux

_ IBM compatible PC based on the Intel Pentium 4 processor or equivalent

_ 1-Gigabyte RAM Memory

_ 100 GB Hard Disk

_ Color Monitor (SVGA or above)

_ One (1) High Density Floppy Diskette Drive (3.5")

_ DVD RW (Burner) for Backups

What mobo is good for this? Obviously i need no sound or super video anything. I would like something with gigabit ethernet, or the ability to add it. I am looking for quiet and stable solutions. I know the OS is old, but its the only one they have tested and stable for now. There will be 3 workstations total.

Thanks in advance
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Ford Versailles History

[John]

Using RH 8.0 probably isn't much of an issue as long as it's running on a private network. If connected to the Internet, etc, you might want to go with an OS that is currently supported - especially with security updates. Red Hat no longer supports 8.0 and I believe Progeny did for a while after Red Hat dropped support for it, but I believe their update service for 8.0 has ended as well.

I don't know from first-hand experience, but I think the main issue you may come across would be using state of the art hardware with an older OS that may not have driver support for all the components. The best stability would probably come from hardware that was around just before RH 8.0 came out, this way you would be more likely to not have any driver issues.

A while back I installed RH 7.3 on an ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe motherboard and everything seemed fine. I didn't run that system in a production environment, though. I ran it as a development server for a short while. The A7N8X-E-Deluxe has built-in gigabit ethernet, although I am not sure about driver support for that in RH 8.0.

The A7N8X is a consumer type motherboard, not really meant for enterprise/server type stuff - although it would probably work fine.

As you're looking for what would work best, I think generally the higher end hardware - but you still need to be sure that RH 8.0 would run fine on it.

Sounds as though you are replacing an existing system... does it currently lag at all? You might focus on the bottleneck and just make sure to increase capacity there where it is needed most.

[nsmoller]

This pc will be connected to internet to allow for claims transfers, etc.

The company is giving me a line about stability, saying that Red Hat 8 is the "most stable and recently tested" with their software. Would there REALLY be an issue if i try something like ubuntu or fedora 5 with this software? I dont understand linux enough. I know that red hat vs fedora is like windows 95 vs xp. I'm guessing that ubuntu to fedora is apples to oranges.

The company updated what they want, they use a pentium 4 2.8 ghz cpu.

As for the motherboard, it was mentioned that the board suggested wasnt really for server applications. This is only accessed by 3-4 pc's at once. I figure we dont need high end stuff for such a small load.

I am not replacing existing hardware. I am starting new.
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Honda Rvf400

[Chris]

CentOS is a red hat clone would'nt this be the next best thing to red hat? If they say that red hat is so stable then CentOS should also be stable for the same thing, Plus there is support for it as well as it being a free OS you dont have to change much. I myself use debian and its very stable it has been up since i loaded it now going on 67 days, Where my Xp system crashed 10 times( Now i know why i hate XP) I am a debian user for my server and desktop.

I own a pharmacy. Our dispensing software is linux based and uses diskless workstations to operate. I have the specifications for hardware thats required. I'm looking for suggestions on actual mobo, CPU, ram configs that would work the best. Here's the information from the company on requirements for the server:

You say you have your dispensing software running on that machine are you upgrading the machine? If you are i believe that the software might have been coded for RedHat specifically. With CentOS being a clone of redhat you would probally have better luck with that software being compatible.

PS: I have software that i have to use XP for that is why i spoke of it and it was used in reference to the stability of my debian... I am also using on an internal network CentOS, run DSL on an old notebook, and have Mandrake as my second computer OS.
*edited*

[nsmoller]

Here's where i'm leaning...

CentOS as OS for now - i can have red hat AND centOS right?

SUPERMICRO MBD-P4SCT+II-O Socket 478 Intel 875P ATX Server Motherboardl
Model #: MBD-P4SCT+II-O
Item #: N82E16813182030
$259.99

Intel Pentium 4 3.0E Prescott 800MHz FSB Socket 478 Processor
Model #: RK80546PG0801M
Item #: N82E16819116175
107.99

People seem to be fans of the supermicro board... how do i know if CentOS or RH8 will work with these?
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Comparison of hybrids

[Chris]

On the same machine are you going to try a dual boot? CentOS is the name of the Operating System which is a Clone of RedHat Which Most Likely will run all your RedHat softaware. The other guy that posted here uses CentOS and has turned me on to CentOS as a redhat clone. I know debian fairly well i am still learning CentOS. My recommendation would be to get the latest stable release of CentOS and load that up on your new machine and keep your old RedHat 8 going untill you get all the software switched over. If i understood you right you have business specific software designed to do one thing, "Depensing Software" Is this the Med Despenser or is a Database Program that you are using to keep track of the paitents

I know the med despensor requires specific software if you are running it on redhat then the next best choice would be CentOS without spending the money for RedHat

[John]

Originally Posted by nsmoller

People seem to be fans of the supermicro board... how do i know if CentOS or RH8 will work with these?

I believe Supermicro only makes server type boards, and I have heard from many that Supermicro is really the top dog when it comes to that type of hardware. Supermicro, Tyan & Intel I've read are generally the best when it comes to server motherboards.

As you already mentioned, you might not actually need a server class board. More than likely not, but you do get what you pay for when it comes to this type of stuff.

I'm not sure if RH8 would have any issue with drivers for everything on the motherboard. For example, the NIC drivers... gigabit ethernet cards were pretty much unheard of when RH8 was released. Unless the Intel NIC drivers haven't changed since 2002... you would probably have trouble with this. RH8 may not even detect the NIC at all until you install the drivers... could turn in to a major pain. CentOS would more than likely have full support for the hardware, although that's not a 100% certainty. But is a lot more likely to support all the hardware as compared to RH8.

Something else to think about... how important will the data on the server be? If the hard disk crashed and was unrecoverable, would that be a problem? If so, it would probably be best to spend more of your budget on that side of things.

I noticed the Newegg format item numbers right away. Great place to shop. I buy most of my computer hardware from there.

[John]

Is your pharmacy required to be in compliance with the HIPPA laws? I don't know much of the details on those laws other than there is a lot of focus on the security of the info. If you are required to be in compliance you may want to be sure that RH8 can even be used. My guess is that RH8 would not pass the requirements.

It's almost shocking that a software company would recommend RH8 to be used at a pharmacy or any other place that is connected to a public network and that deals with sensitive info. If your server was not connected to any networks and only to other workstations in your office then I don't think this would be much of an issue.

As far as I know, Red Hat dropped support for RH8 at the end of 2003. The company I linked in my previous post, Progeny, had a paid update service available for Red Hat that ended in Dec. 2005.

I think the important thing to consider regarding RH8 is that there will be NO updates available to you for that operating system, at least that I know of. So even though official support ended in 2003, you would essentially only have whatever updates that were included in the official release of RH8, which was back in September 2002.

The Fedora operating system is, as far as I understand it, Red Hat's testing ground for features that may be included in their enterprise operating system RHEL (Red Hat Enterprise Linux, which is currently at version 4). So, it seems that Fedora users are beta testers for Red Hat in some way. I'm not sure it would be best for you to go with that type of OS.

CentOS came about when Red Hat no longer provided their OS for free. Red Hat's only obligation with the open source licenses is that they provide the source code, etc. The only way to get the newer RHEL distributions, as well as update support, is via subscription to their Red Hat Network. CentOS is a clone of RHEL, there are very minimal differences mainly to do with how updates are made available as Red Hat's update system is by subscription only - so that part had to be changed. Other than that, CentOS is exactly the same but with all the Red Hat logos and trademarks removed.

If the dispensing server software operates on CentOS, I would recommend going with that. It would be most similar to RH8, although RHEL is quite a big upgrade from the old RH8 OS. Things may be different, only way to know if it would work would be to test it or find out from other users of the software.

Ubuntu, as far as I know, is more geared towards workstation/pc usage and not really for servers. Although it would probably work fine as a server. I don't know how different it is compared to RH8.

[nsmoller]

JOhn thanks for all the info, and thanks to all that are contributing.

I know, this RH8 thing is b.s. i know nothing about linux, but know enough to say WTF. The OS is old as hell, not supported, and insecure in ways i couldnt comprehend.

The compliance with HIPAA is in the transmission of claims and in the database itself, not vulnerability for attack.

Do you have suggestions on network security that are free/low impact that would make this server a little tighter?
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Ford hsc engine specifications

[John]

There are some things that you can do to make things a bit more secure, even if you must run RH8. First thing I would recommend is when you install RH8, install only what is required and nothing extra. After you have the system running, disable any and all unnecessary services. The fewer programs left running on the server the less there is exposed to potential hackers or automated stuff such as worms/viruses/etc.

Install a software firewall on the server and configure it so that ONLY the ports required for your dispensing software to work are enabled. One that I like is APF Firewall. If your software always initiates the data transfers, then set the firewall so that is the only way it would work... so data transfer on the specific port cannot be initiated externally. If the network that your server will connect to has a static IP address, or a known IP range... you can further configure the firewall to limit access to that specific IP or IP range.

Make sure you have a network router with a stateful firewall as it will give you an additional layer of security.

Disable telnet. Even if you need remote access available to the server, you can do it using SSH which is a secure encypted method of transmission. Telnet uses no encryption and there is no need for it anyhow as you can use SSH. I would recommend removing SSH that is installed with RH8 and reinstalling the most up to date version, even if you need to do so from source.

If remote access is required, you would need to pass the connection through your hardware router firewall. You could also proxy the SSH connection to the server via another server on your network that is running a fully updated secured install of RHEL4/CentOS4. The dispensing software server could be configured so that it would only accept connections from the proxy server, which would be more secure.

If you go with SSH direct to the dispensing software server, also configure SSH so that it will only accept connections from specific IP addresses.

If remote access is not required, by all means disable SSH as well. You will have console access to the server anyhow, so remote access may not even be needed.

Remove common access to compilers and fetching software. Basically make it so that only the root account can access those programs. LES is a nice script that will change the permissions for you, from the same company that made the APF firewall.

Install an anti-virus program. It may not be needed... but then again could be the thing that saves your server.


So, overall, what you are doing is making it so that only software that is actually needed on the server is running. Also making it so that any connections are limited to the specific systems/networks that should be doing the connecting. Basically lock down your server best you can and do it in as many layers as you can reasonably manage (the hardware firewall, etc).

Even with all that, I would still recommend using RHEL/CentOS if you can instead of using RH8.