Hello
 

Hi all,

Just thought i would say hello and introduce myself;

My name is Nathan from the UK studying at the University of Portsmouth doing a degree in Internet Technology. I have recently came across this site due to my course going into network system administration and design so i decided to build myself a server and learn on my own time aswell as when at uni.

I'm currently running Centos 4.4 (on a Really old computer - lol) just for testing purposes and developing sites on really and to further my knowledge using *nix OS's.

If you want some more traffic i can put a link on my universities forum if you wish.

Nathan

Hi there!

I learned linux on my own too, so I know how rough things can be in the beginning.

As for CentOS, it's crap*. You should try Debian Etch for a server, it has rock solid security and it will work on the oldest of hardware (I have a 133mhz/64mb ram running debian in my closet).

*Note: This is a personal opinion. Not to be taken rudely.

Hi,

Thank you for your reply, I must admit that I do have the advantage of being st uni and a few extra resources at my disposal (which is good), im currently running centos on an old 400 with 128 (i think) slow though i will try Debian Etch though.

Can i ask why (in your opinion lol) that you think its not as good as Debian Etch? I would be quite interested to know!

Nathan

Mostly personal preference. ;) Try it and see which you prefer. I don't know a single person to go back to whatever distro they were using before after giving Debian a real shot.

Billy, is Debian Etch on the "bleeding edge" of linux development? As far as I know, RHEL/CentOS is not. That might be part of the difference between them.

I read a while back that RedHat holds back with a lot of the newer developments in the Linux world with their RHEL product as it is meant to be an enterprise level system so they make a point to run only the tried and proven versions of various software. Supposedly, Fedora is what they use for testing all the unproven stuff on.

I'm still yet to get my hands dirty with Debian. One of these days I will...

Nathan, welcome back. It's good to see you return to the site.

I personally like to think that it is seeing as they have constant updates for lenny and i think daily for sid. Billy is the one who got me in with Debian so i will leave the answer on him but this answer is my personal opinion.

I do know that Debian is easier to admin then Cent at least in my experience with it i had Cent running for a week before i formatted and reloaded with Debian.

No. Debian Etch is the current "stable" release of Debian. No new softwares make it in to this distrobution unless installed manually (from a number of ways). The only updates done officially for the stable release are security updates.

Debian works in much the same way (I think - don't know too much about how RH does things).

Debian has 5 "levels"; old stable (currently Sarge), stable (currently Etch), testing (currently Lenny), unstable (always called Sid), and experimental (no name).

The differences are sometimes hard to understand for people not familiar with the whole process (took me a year to finally "get it").

The developers work in real-time in Experimental. The packages in this level are what they are, extremely dangerous experimental packages (bleeding edge). These packages can be tapped into by normal users, but must be done so manually (I have a few experimental packages installed to fix hardware issues, such as my graphical display on my desktop). Once the packages are in experimental for a few days and are deemed worthy of "beta testers" (i cant think of another good name to call these testers) the package makes its way into Sid (unstable). Packages can sit in Sid for a very long time, but on the flip side could be in as short as a few hours. Packages in Sid are so the testers and developers can see how these packages play with the other dependant packages. If they play nice without any noticeable errors/glitches then the package then makes its way to Lenny (testing). Packages sit in Testing for a VERY long time, most of the time 2-3 years. None of these packages will EVER make it down to the Stable (Etch) release. The reason being that Once all packages in Testing are considered stable (and I do mean every single one of them) then Etch will then be knocked out of Stable and become the Old Stable and Testing now becomes the new Stable.

Confusing, yes. Here's a visual aid (kinda):

Currently:
Sarge (Old Stable)
Etch (Stable)
Lenny (Testing)
Sid (Unstable)

Future:
Etch (Old Stable)
Lenny (Stable)
???? (Testing)
Sid (Unstable)

Notice that Sid doesnt move. Sid is always Sid. It will forever be Unstable. Testing becomes a *copy* of Lenny and given a new name. This new Testing will then wait 2-3 years for every single package to become stable, then the process happens again and everything gets bumped down.

So, to answer your original question, no. Etch does not contain any bleeding edge softwares and never will. This one of the reasons Etch makes a very stable and secure server distro.

Most Desktop users use Lenny (testing) as their distro of choice because it contains newer softwares (almost bleeding edge, but not quite). I, and a handful of others, use Sid as their desktop distro. We get the bleeding edge softwares and all the cool new features, but we also get the bugs and glitches with its unstableness. Most Sid users know their way around the Debian distro well enough to work around these temporary glitches (hence why I have a few experimental packages, one of the workarounds for Sid glitches, hehe). Lenny and Sid are both not a good idea to use for a server distro as they come with a lot of glitches and could contain major security holes.

As for running Old Stable, you can do that too - but nothing gets updated to these distros as they are considered "frozen". Not even security updates make it into these.

Experimental cannot be run as a whole distro. It's impossible seeing as things are so messed up in there. Experimental is only around so the developers have a place to put their work and so users can tap into it for a few packages.

You really should - Debian really is the best distro out there! :) If you plan on using it as a server, I recommend Etch. Use Lenny if you plan on using it as a desktop. If you want to try out Sid, you need to know your way around the system first as there is no installer for Sid. You have to dist-upgrade from Etch or Lenny to get Sid.

Also, I wanted to point out Debian's naming scheme. Its a kind of joke for the developers. Debian's levels are given names from the Toy Story series (Hamm, Slink, Woody, Sarge, Etch, Lenny, Sid).

The main part of the joke is Sid. Sid was the "unstable" kid next door that was always breaking everything. That's why Debian calls their "unstable", Sid. It's the "unstable" distro that's always breaking things. lol!

Oh yeah!

And I would never get something tattoo'd on my body that I wasn't absolutely sure about: http://houston.pl3x.net/billy/pictur...o/100_0234.JPG ;)

Billy, you sure are a die-hard Debian fan with that tatoo. Thanks for posting all that information, it makes a lot of sense. All that with the unstable to the old stable makes sense as well. It's good to know how that it all organized in case I ever get around to doing anything with Debian.